Tuesday, November 4, 2014

Some comments on the 'Cult of China Experts' #China

[–]throwaway13375934 19 points  
Last, we have legions of lesser, disposable China watchers. Few of them enjoy fat expat packages, bigwig relatives in the media, or peddling political influence. Unable to find proper jobs and secure a future in China - apart from becoming activists, bloggers, or English teachers- they are recruited easily and radicalize quickly. Everyone has met those frustrated Westerners who once believed in their entitlement, got disillusioned, and found a way to spend their days: to patronize and correct the Chinese.
So everyone on /m/China?
[–]Rampaging_BunnyUnited States 2 points  
I think this is a bit unfair of the article to assume that's the only way these people can cope- to "patronize and correct" the chinese. What about the so-called disillusioned ones or the teachers who truly do try and integrate, make friends, learn to cook chinese food, marry/date, etc. This article was FULL of holes and shoddy uncited statements.
[–]TheDark1Australia 1 point  
Clearly the lesson to be learned is that we should be more like Pattberg - write bizarre gobbldygook praising the party and criticize our home countries and get fat on the paid appearances, articles and book sales that follow. He sure found a "proper job" in China, right?
[–]TheDark1Australia 0 points  
[–]boobweiner69 7 points  
"Americans finance Taiwan separatists"
Seriously? Even if you think that Taiwan belongs to China, any one who looks into the situation for more than five minutes will see it's more complicated than that.
[–]TheDark1Australia -3 points  
The entire article, Pattberg's entire world view is unbelievably batshit insane. Look how he throws out these massive claims without backing them up every few seconds. It's an opinion piece so it's not like he should be giving citations, but you can't just say something like:
China isn't the only victim. All other six non-Western civilizations are feeling the whip of Western imperialism. The West claims it is "universal" and that is does not (and cannot) take responsibility for any of its abusive individuals in foreign lands since they are all free agents. It's the same old excuse since the age of colonialism
In the West, foreign extremist groups, left or right, are monitored and tightly controlled. But no-one controls these Western imperialists. Germans finance Xinjiang separatists, Americans finance Taiwan separatists, British finance Tibetan separatist. US journalism even dispatches tactical troops to Hong Kong determined on bringing down Xi Jinping, the president, and his family.
Without somewhat qualifying the bizarre claims you make.
Also, I love the idea that this guy thinks he is more of a "China expert" than Henry Kissinger.
Final note: If you ever feel down and need a good belly laugh, just do an image search for this turkey. Hours of fun for the whole family!
I love the one where he's superimposed a picture of the dictionary entry for "language" onto the picture.
[–]thoreaupoeUnited States[S] 7 points  
Europe Needs Its Own Confucianism
[–]tabitha777 5 points  
I find it funny that you're slandering this guy's character and appearance as if you're more attractive or qualified than he is.
pattberg has accomplished more than you ever will in your lifetime, so while you neckbeard on reddit, and live in a place you hate, he's gaining worldwide recognition.
But please, continue hating, because that's all you have.
[–]Kooglemoore 5 points  
Nice try, Pattberg.
[–]movingon11United States 1 point  
Patberg has accomplished being a shitstain far more than most, certainly. Similarly, so have you, it would seem. You two must have so much in common. Must be cute to see you two get chatty.
[–]TheDark1Australia 0 points  
He's gaining world recognition as a bizarre maniacal shill.
[–]tabitha777 5 points  
He's gaining world recognition as a bizarre maniacal shill.
Haha haha the irony is beyond epic!
[–]Kooglemoore -1 points  
Interesting word choice. What exactly does it mean for irony to be "beyond epic?"
[–]tabitha777 5 points  
Because thedark1 is a maniacal shill - not original enough to be bizarre though. ;)
[–]perihelion86United States 1 point  
I am new here, but how is this guy a moderator? I perused his comments and saw multiple violations of the posted rules.
[–]Rampaging_BunnyUnited States -1 points  
Haha. You read into his words too much. Get off reddit its affecting you too much!
[–]elcerodeluz 10 points  
The cult's a lot older than you think.
Look up the tale of the Chinapol email listserv out of UCLA:
China studies, since 1990, has become an ideological battleground way out of touch with reality in China. It's been dominated by the ideology of confronting the CCP rather than the ideology of analyzing China's situation. Even academic pieces that start off as analysis inevitably get tinted into evaluating the impact of that analysis on the CCP's continuing ability to rule (or put in polite academic-speak, "political stability").
You would probably learn more about "the real China / the Chinese status quo and likeliest sociopolitical outcome" taking a developmental economics and policy and industrial organization courseload than you would taking a Chinese culture/politics courseload.
Now, what is doubly interesting is that even as so much US/Canadian/Australian academic research focuses on various things in China vis a vis political stability (e.g. how things help or hurt the CCP's ability to rule), there is precious little research that actually wonders what a post-CCP China would actually look like. It reminds me of the analytical mistakes the US intelligence and Middle Eastern research community made in the decade prior to Iraq 03 - so much time spent figuring the how of not strengthening/weakening and killing Saddam's regime, but precious little time spent figuring out what comes after...
[–]nojusticenpeace 2 points  
maybe some people are just tired of the bullshit in China. Something gets stolen? you're fucked. get hit by a car? fucked
there's so little rule of law here. There's so many idiot drivers in part because most drivers ever take a test or learn how to drive, they just merely pay a bribe.
Even in the nicest of neighborhoods, it's fucking dirty unless every neighbor is worth $10 million. Check into a nice hotel? some dumb fuck is gonna smoke in the elevator...
wy the fuck do people romanticize it here when there's so much that is just fucking stupid?!?! It's not that it's 'not western,' it's that it's just fucked up. HK, TAiwan, Philippines, Vietnam... the list goes on of countries that are far poorer but not so fucked up.
sorry guys I'm fucking grumpy after people almost running me over at Metro, my parents and I almost getting hit by a BMW, and showing up to the beach and it's fucking disgusting and dirty because people are so selfish and lazy and throw their fucking shit everywhere. even at the 5 star hotel there's shit on the beach
[–]brahswell 2 points  
because people are so selfish and lazy and throw their fucking shit everywhere. even at the 5 star hotel there's shit on the beach
takes 20 years for this type of culture to change, see 1950's America
[–]nojusticenpeace 1 point  
20 years? why 20 years? and when are we gonna start counting in China? just curious
[–]justpin 1 point  
It's generational. Those who are children now in 20 years will be the core of society. It is their values ethics and behaviour which determines what society will be like in 20 years time.
In the western world we split society into distinct groups:
WWII veterans who rebuilt Europe born around 1920-1930,
Post war baby boomers. 1950-1970
Generation X 1970-1985
Generation Y 1986-1999
Right now we are in the last 6-10 years of the millennials.
[–]nojusticenpeace 1 point  
I see. I don't think this generation will be the one to change, maybe the next one. I live next to the beach and that beach is next to a 5 star restaurant. There have been beach clean days and some volunteers even put trash cans on the beach... it's just as dirty as ever, it's really sad.
[–]canuckupyTO 5 points  
I can't speak for other disciplines, but as a political scientist I can confirm that this article is a hysterical misrepresentation of the academic study of China.
[–]TheDark1Australia -4 points  
You can relax. Only someone with the reasoning skills of a child and the anger of a ex- German army officer and art school dropout could take this kind of invective seriously.
[–]TheDark1Australia 4 points  
By Thorsten Pattberg
[–]3llt33 1 point  
Barely readable crazy talk. Who wrote this...
[–]AgentCC 1 point  
Germans fund Xinjiang separatists? I know there are a lot of Turks living in Germany who are supposed to be ethnically related to the Uiyghurs. Does that have anything to do with the conclusions he's drawing?
[–]goin_dangUnited States 1 point  
Cult? Experts? Why am I not on board? I declare such cult non-existent!